1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,860 During COVID, I was 2 00:00:01,860 --> 00:00:05,235 the director of UND clinical response. 3 00:00:05,235 --> 00:00:07,620 Previous to that, I was director of UND 4 00:00:07,620 --> 00:00:08,910 Student Health Services. 5 00:00:08,910 --> 00:00:12,060 I'd been on the university campus for about 24 years. 6 00:00:12,060 --> 00:00:15,730 I did retire June of 2021. 7 00:00:15,740 --> 00:00:19,125 Did you think about retiring earlier? 8 00:00:19,125 --> 00:00:19,860 I did. 9 00:00:19,860 --> 00:00:21,435 When you saw all this happening. 10 00:00:21,435 --> 00:00:26,100 I originally was supposed to retire June of 2020. 11 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:28,050 And then when COVID hit, 12 00:00:28,050 --> 00:00:29,505 I extended my retirement to 13 00:00:29,505 --> 00:00:32,115 December and we're still in the peak of it. 14 00:00:32,115 --> 00:00:36,290 So I extended it again to June 30, 2021. 15 00:00:36,290 --> 00:00:38,255 So I had three retirement dates. But 16 00:00:38,255 --> 00:00:41,075 I was fortunate to be able to stay on during that time 17 00:00:41,075 --> 00:00:44,270 and continue in the effort to battle the COVID. 18 00:00:44,270 --> 00:00:46,250 Walk us through that a little bit. 19 00:00:46,250 --> 00:00:49,430 What what did your job, your duties entail? 20 00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:51,500 Well, I think to start with, I think 21 00:00:51,500 --> 00:00:53,495 back to the first time I heard of COVID. 22 00:00:53,495 --> 00:00:54,770 And that was I was 23 00:00:54,770 --> 00:00:56,600 walking through our bedroom one morning 24 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,865 in January of 2020. 25 00:01:01,865 --> 00:01:04,310 And there was a brief news 26 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:07,655 cast about the COVID and in China. 27 00:01:07,655 --> 00:01:09,320 And I remember looking at my husband 28 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:11,900 and saying, Oh shoot, 29 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:13,790 just knowing that this is 30 00:01:13,790 --> 00:01:15,905 going to be bad or having a feeling, 31 00:01:15,905 --> 00:01:19,640 then it kind of didn't resurface again till March. 32 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:20,990 In March of 2020, 33 00:01:20,990 --> 00:01:23,570 the CDC issued a statement recommending that 34 00:01:23,570 --> 00:01:27,545 all students studying abroad returned home to the US. 35 00:01:27,545 --> 00:01:30,530 So that was the first time I really got involved with COVID at 36 00:01:30,530 --> 00:01:32,000 the university and im still acting 37 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,920 as Director of Student Health Services. 38 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:34,835 So at That time. 39 00:01:34,835 --> 00:01:37,355 I worked with the Executive Council 40 00:01:37,355 --> 00:01:39,935 and President when I was here at that time. 41 00:01:39,935 --> 00:01:41,690 And we talked about whether or not to bring 42 00:01:41,690 --> 00:01:43,610 students back from study abroad. 43 00:01:43,610 --> 00:01:45,185 And that was the first big 44 00:01:45,185 --> 00:01:46,625 decision that I was involved in, 45 00:01:46,625 --> 00:01:50,045 or the big question unrelated to COVID. 46 00:01:50,045 --> 00:01:52,190 Prior to that, we have been more 47 00:01:52,190 --> 00:01:54,635 concerned about the flood preparation. 48 00:01:54,635 --> 00:01:57,290 And so it wasn't until March that we 49 00:01:57,290 --> 00:02:01,070 actually turned our focus too COVID. 50 00:02:01,070 --> 00:02:05,014 Beginning in March and thereafter, 51 00:02:05,014 --> 00:02:07,580 it became very intense quickly. 52 00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:11,735 We would say that throughout all of this, 53 00:02:11,735 --> 00:02:14,135 whether it was President Armacost, 54 00:02:14,135 --> 00:02:17,555 attending or meetings via Zoom. 55 00:02:17,555 --> 00:02:21,020 President Wynne was still our acting president 56 00:02:21,020 --> 00:02:26,240 But we began meeting daily at 08:00 A.M. our 57 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,980 Whole pandemic team, which consisted 58 00:02:27,980 --> 00:02:30,680 of people from across campus. 59 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,315 And we met for months every morning, 8-9. 60 00:02:35,315 --> 00:02:37,370 We also then would tapered off 61 00:02:37,370 --> 00:02:39,860 to three times a week depending on what was going on. 62 00:02:39,860 --> 00:02:41,660 But throughout the whole course of 63 00:02:41,660 --> 00:02:45,065 the pandemic we continued to meet. 64 00:02:45,065 --> 00:02:47,915 What I would say is throughout 65 00:02:47,915 --> 00:02:50,330 all of these meetings and throughout all of this time, 66 00:02:50,330 --> 00:02:52,010 what was first and foremost, 67 00:02:52,010 --> 00:02:55,265 and this is the honest-to-God truth. 68 00:02:55,265 --> 00:02:57,140 Both the president and 69 00:02:57,140 --> 00:02:59,390 the executive council kept going back 70 00:02:59,390 --> 00:03:01,070 to how can we make sure 71 00:03:01,070 --> 00:03:03,005 that our community is safe as students, 72 00:03:03,005 --> 00:03:04,175 safe for the staff, 73 00:03:04,175 --> 00:03:06,710 and safe for a greater community of Grand Forks. 74 00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:08,540 We all recognize that students, 75 00:03:08,540 --> 00:03:10,220 if they were infected with COVID, 76 00:03:10,220 --> 00:03:12,020 probably would fare just fine. 77 00:03:12,020 --> 00:03:13,550 But we also knew that they worked 78 00:03:13,550 --> 00:03:15,230 in places downtown in the that 79 00:03:15,230 --> 00:03:18,320 Contact with people from all walks of life. 80 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,060 And we're very concerned about 81 00:03:20,060 --> 00:03:23,495 the well-being of the entire population. 82 00:03:23,495 --> 00:03:27,515 We relied on all kinds of resources. 83 00:03:27,515 --> 00:03:29,495 And I think that's where I became kind of 84 00:03:29,495 --> 00:03:33,365 a collection spot for information. 85 00:03:33,365 --> 00:03:36,470 We met regularly with North Dakota health department, 86 00:03:36,470 --> 00:03:38,060 with the state contact tracers, 87 00:03:38,060 --> 00:03:39,785 the Grand Forks health department. 88 00:03:39,785 --> 00:03:43,910 We also met 3 and 5 times a week with Altru. 89 00:03:43,910 --> 00:03:46,880 Grand Forks public health and Jen burger from 90 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,955 the emergency management here on campus and myself. 91 00:03:49,955 --> 00:03:53,510 Those meetings, we're all hugely informational and 92 00:03:53,510 --> 00:03:56,990 gave us an idea of what was predicted to come on, 93 00:03:56,990 --> 00:03:59,000 what kind of barriers we might have to 94 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,685 overcome to be able to stay open. 95 00:04:01,685 --> 00:04:03,800 Our goal was to stay open during 96 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,950 the academic year if we could do it safely. 97 00:04:06,950 --> 00:04:11,060 That was definitely a struggle at times. 98 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:13,970 And you know what, 99 00:04:13,970 --> 00:04:16,790 I think some of the conversations we had, 100 00:04:16,790 --> 00:04:19,445 it can hardly believe that we would sit 101 00:04:19,445 --> 00:04:21,680 in conversations with Grand Forks public 102 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,840 health and Altru and talk 103 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:28,535 about what kind of more space we had in Grand Forks. 104 00:04:28,535 --> 00:04:30,440 Where are the reefer for trucks, 105 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:31,970 refrigerator referred trucks. 106 00:04:31,970 --> 00:04:32,995 When can we get them? 107 00:04:32,995 --> 00:04:39,050 We wanted to we knew that once the hospitals became full, 108 00:04:39,050 --> 00:04:41,765 that was too late for us to intervene. 109 00:04:41,765 --> 00:04:45,260 You needed to mediate prior 110 00:04:45,260 --> 00:04:48,695 to the hospitals being exhausted or overstretched. 111 00:04:48,695 --> 00:04:50,780 So we're trying to stay a step 112 00:04:50,780 --> 00:04:52,925 ahead of the hospital all the time. 113 00:04:52,925 --> 00:04:53,660 That's where it was really 114 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:55,130 beneficial to have those meetings 115 00:04:55,130 --> 00:04:58,460 with the emergency management from the hospital as well. 116 00:04:58,460 --> 00:05:00,230 And it kept us informed about 117 00:05:00,230 --> 00:05:01,820 where they were for numbers and 118 00:05:01,820 --> 00:05:04,640 preparation and they were able 119 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,670 to augment their beds at different times. 120 00:05:07,670 --> 00:05:11,675 And the good part about 121 00:05:11,675 --> 00:05:16,325 ending my career during a pandemic at UND was, 122 00:05:16,325 --> 00:05:18,530 I don t think ever in my life I have had 123 00:05:18,530 --> 00:05:20,630 an opportunity to work so 124 00:05:20,630 --> 00:05:23,390 closely with so many different entities. 125 00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:27,050 Different hats with really one same goal. 126 00:05:27,050 --> 00:05:30,500 There really was no 127 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:33,170 power plays that I could feel going on. 128 00:05:33,170 --> 00:05:35,510 Everybody was just really concerned 129 00:05:35,510 --> 00:05:39,260 about the health and welfare of our whole community. 130 00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:41,420 I would counter that, saying that never 131 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:43,040 in my professional life have I ever 132 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,430 experienced such a pole outside 133 00:05:46,430 --> 00:05:49,580 of Grand Forks and the greater country of 134 00:05:49,580 --> 00:05:51,980 political poll versus science that was 135 00:05:51,980 --> 00:05:54,590 difficult as a nurse to maneuver at times. 136 00:05:54,590 --> 00:05:57,110 It was maybe so my greater frustrations. 137 00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:59,900 But understanding where that comes from. 138 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:03,600 Most of my responsibilities. 139 00:06:05,140 --> 00:06:10,670 What do you think back to March of 2022? 140 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:13,170 March of 2021. 141 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:17,060 I do believe that March of 2021 was 142 00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:18,470 a first-time on here that I left 143 00:06:18,470 --> 00:06:20,880 her house without my laptop. 144 00:06:20,950 --> 00:06:24,245 I'm not saying that any kind of martyr form. 145 00:06:24,245 --> 00:06:25,820 Everybody on campus that was 146 00:06:25,820 --> 00:06:28,590 involved in this with doing the same thing. 147 00:06:28,750 --> 00:06:35,150 I remember countless times of President. 148 00:06:35,150 --> 00:06:38,540 Armacost sending out an email when three in the morning, 149 00:06:38,540 --> 00:06:41,195 answering email at 5:30 in the morning, 150 00:06:41,195 --> 00:06:43,520 my direct supervisor would get 151 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,085 his kids to bed and you start working at 11:30. 152 00:06:46,085 --> 00:06:50,630 And so we just kinda we just we just went non-stop. 153 00:06:50,630 --> 00:06:52,310 And again, 154 00:06:52,310 --> 00:06:54,080 what made it possible was that everybody is working 155 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,400 together and everybody valued everybody's opinion. 156 00:06:58,400 --> 00:06:59,495 We may not have agreed 157 00:06:59,495 --> 00:07:01,190 definitely not agreed on everything. 158 00:07:01,190 --> 00:07:03,905 But I think as a nurse with my background, 159 00:07:03,905 --> 00:07:05,495 I always felt listened to. 160 00:07:05,495 --> 00:07:07,190 And I think others did too, 161 00:07:07,190 --> 00:07:09,335 that we're on the committees. 162 00:07:09,335 --> 00:07:10,850 Lots of faculty. 163 00:07:10,850 --> 00:07:14,390 Did somebody in their classroom that was positive, 164 00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:15,770 we couldn't give names. 165 00:07:15,770 --> 00:07:18,425 We have to respect the confidentiality of the students 166 00:07:18,425 --> 00:07:21,815 or the faculty or the staff or whoever it was. 167 00:07:21,815 --> 00:07:24,035 We couldn't give names, but we could give 168 00:07:24,035 --> 00:07:25,550 instructions about what to do in 169 00:07:25,550 --> 00:07:27,545 your classroom, things like that. 170 00:07:27,545 --> 00:07:31,700 The phone calls and emails were tremendous, 171 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:36,230 but it was so many avenues that I could turn to for help. 172 00:07:36,230 --> 00:07:38,585 Sean McBride, the epidemiologist. 173 00:07:38,585 --> 00:07:41,570 How many times I would contact him and say Sean, 174 00:07:41,570 --> 00:07:43,145 what do I tell these people and 175 00:07:43,145 --> 00:07:46,040 the guidance from all over with just phenomenon. 176 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,175 That's what I say, ending my career working through this. 177 00:07:49,175 --> 00:07:51,950 It defined my last year-and-a-half. 178 00:07:51,950 --> 00:07:54,260 But it also left me 179 00:07:54,260 --> 00:07:57,575 thankful and grateful for the people that I worked with. 180 00:07:57,575 --> 00:08:00,770 I think one of my darkest moments was 181 00:08:00,770 --> 00:08:06,110 the evening of August 28, 2020. 182 00:08:06,110 --> 00:08:08,960 That week prior, we had done 183 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:10,100 a battery of testing as 184 00:08:10,100 --> 00:08:12,065 students are coming back to campus. 185 00:08:12,065 --> 00:08:14,285 And that was a Friday night. 186 00:08:14,285 --> 00:08:16,610 We're getting our results back and we already 187 00:08:16,610 --> 00:08:18,785 had over 100 students positive. 188 00:08:18,785 --> 00:08:21,350 And it was 10:30 at night. 189 00:08:21,350 --> 00:08:23,630 And President Armacost called a meeting of 190 00:08:23,630 --> 00:08:25,820 the Executive Council and I was 191 00:08:25,820 --> 00:08:28,820 invited and Debbie Swanson 192 00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:31,130 from Grand Forks public health was with us. 193 00:08:31,130 --> 00:08:33,965 Sean ride, the epidemiologist was present. 194 00:08:33,965 --> 00:08:35,240 We all were there and that 195 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:36,980 was I remember President Armacost 196 00:08:36,980 --> 00:08:40,190 saying do we have to close? 197 00:08:40,190 --> 00:08:41,810 The kids were just coming back. 198 00:08:41,810 --> 00:08:43,940 Do we have to call us? We didn't think we could do it. 199 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:44,780 With that. 200 00:08:44,780 --> 00:08:47,420 We were beaten already as much as we've prepared. 201 00:08:47,420 --> 00:08:48,830 We did all the physical distancing in 202 00:08:48,830 --> 00:08:51,245 the classroom as much as we can Get ready. 203 00:08:51,245 --> 00:08:53,915 We thought we were that were done. 204 00:08:53,915 --> 00:08:57,140 Remember Debbie Swanson saying, wait till Monday. 205 00:08:57,140 --> 00:08:58,865 Wait till Monday. 206 00:08:58,865 --> 00:09:02,780 With those efforts then, the President directed 207 00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:06,245 to institute our own UND contact tracing team 208 00:09:06,245 --> 00:09:08,600 which would help with carrying the burden 209 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,480 of follow-up if all these people also 210 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,645 eventually directed to start 211 00:09:14,645 --> 00:09:18,110 a testing team right on campus. 212 00:09:18,110 --> 00:09:20,450 So that was probably the night. 213 00:09:20,450 --> 00:09:23,360 I'll never forget looking at people were exhausted. 214 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:24,830 It was 10:30 and looking at cross 215 00:09:24,830 --> 00:09:26,450 a Zoom meeting and all these faces and 216 00:09:26,450 --> 00:09:29,825 everybody looked beat, they disliked. 217 00:09:29,825 --> 00:09:31,610 We're done. 218 00:09:31,610 --> 00:09:32,930 Thank goodness. 219 00:09:32,930 --> 00:09:35,840 We gave it a few more days and we did 220 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,335 get our hands around it and we're able to continue on. 221 00:09:39,335 --> 00:09:42,515 So that's one of the nights that I will always remember. 222 00:09:42,515 --> 00:09:45,230 Just that feeling of desolation. 223 00:09:45,230 --> 00:09:46,970 Like as much as we've 224 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:49,310 worked as hard as we've tried to get ready. 225 00:09:49,310 --> 00:09:51,485 I don't think that we can do this. 226 00:09:51,485 --> 00:09:52,340 On Monday. 227 00:09:52,340 --> 00:09:55,145 We had more contact tracing in place. 228 00:09:55,145 --> 00:09:59,210 We had a more clear idea of how many people 229 00:09:59,210 --> 00:10:01,459 were affected with great cooperation 230 00:10:01,459 --> 00:10:03,605 from the groups that were affected. 231 00:10:03,605 --> 00:10:05,240 Primarily the Greek housing. 232 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:06,800 They were the ones coming on campus 233 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,115 for orientation, things like that. 234 00:10:10,115 --> 00:10:11,420 We met with. 235 00:10:11,420 --> 00:10:12,620 I don't know how many houses 236 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:14,090 individually in the evenings via 237 00:10:14,090 --> 00:10:15,650 Zoom and went through 238 00:10:15,650 --> 00:10:18,125 the protocol to the recommendations. 239 00:10:18,125 --> 00:10:21,470 And it just all one day. 240 00:10:21,470 --> 00:10:23,480 It my memory is just all one long day, 241 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:30,020 but people cooperated and we were able to continue on. 242 00:10:30,020 --> 00:10:32,285 The contact tracing was a big deal. 243 00:10:32,285 --> 00:10:34,205 That was that was hard. 244 00:10:34,205 --> 00:10:36,710 There was resistance to that wasn't there. 245 00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:38,120 There was at different times. 246 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,195 I think at first, people were 247 00:10:41,195 --> 00:10:42,920 frightened as we were in 248 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,875 March when we send students home the first year. 249 00:10:45,875 --> 00:10:49,040 Nobody knew what this was going to do, 250 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,555 how quickly it was going to come, 251 00:10:50,555 --> 00:10:52,280 how hard it was going to hit. 252 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,530 We did contact tracing originally, 253 00:10:54,530 --> 00:10:57,225 it was excepted quite well. 254 00:10:57,225 --> 00:10:59,860 And then you get into the reality of, 255 00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:01,765 I should say, quite well, for the most part quite well. 256 00:11:01,765 --> 00:11:07,270 Then you get into the reality of people needing money. 257 00:11:07,270 --> 00:11:09,025 I mean, they had to work, 258 00:11:09,025 --> 00:11:10,960 they had to buy groceries, 259 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,330 they had to pay for the car and their school. 260 00:11:13,330 --> 00:11:15,760 And this wasn't just the students, 261 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,440 this was across the board. 262 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,975 And during the contact tracing, 263 00:11:19,975 --> 00:11:22,105 the students are actually probably the most cooperative. 264 00:11:22,105 --> 00:11:23,830 It was maybe some of the professionals that 265 00:11:23,830 --> 00:11:26,050 were least cooperative or 266 00:11:26,050 --> 00:11:30,774 most resistant to giving information. 267 00:11:30,774 --> 00:11:34,220 And I think that that goes back to 268 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:39,765 I remember a gentleman coming with his kid for testing. 269 00:11:39,765 --> 00:11:41,480 He brought the child in for testing. 270 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,830 And in another light of my life, 271 00:11:45,830 --> 00:11:47,660 I don't know if I would handle the same way, 272 00:11:47,660 --> 00:11:50,120 but he was unusually rough with this child. 273 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,055 The child was probably seven or eight. 274 00:11:52,055 --> 00:11:56,880 And I felt uncomfortable thinking 275 00:11:57,530 --> 00:12:00,200 doesn't have to be this gruff 276 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,480 with him and this harsh with this child, 277 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,945 then you have to look back and you have to think, 278 00:12:05,945 --> 00:12:08,915 this man was probably just called home from work 279 00:12:08,915 --> 00:12:10,550 because this kid has 280 00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:12,845 symptoms and it's positive for COVID. 281 00:12:12,845 --> 00:12:15,845 He's already thinking about he's gonna be missing work. 282 00:12:15,845 --> 00:12:17,405 They have no money to rely on. 283 00:12:17,405 --> 00:12:20,945 They probably have no sick leave, no no vacation. 284 00:12:20,945 --> 00:12:24,440 You try to put yourself in their place. 285 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,300 And then you try to make the situation 286 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:28,235 is as comfortable for them as you can, 287 00:12:28,235 --> 00:12:31,610 you know, acknowledging that this is a hard time for you. 288 00:12:31,610 --> 00:12:32,960 I'm sorry, you're going through this. 289 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,070 This is difficult for the children 290 00:12:34,070 --> 00:12:35,510 and the parents as well. 291 00:12:35,510 --> 00:12:36,980 Thank you for coming in. 292 00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:39,830 You're protecting others by doing this, 293 00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:42,590 taking this responsibility on rather 294 00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:45,380 than be critical that situation, 295 00:12:45,380 --> 00:12:48,695 I think it's important that we respect. 296 00:12:48,695 --> 00:12:50,840 It. Always remember that people are coming 297 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,760 from different directions and they have 298 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,510 different needs and different coping mechanisms. 299 00:12:56,510 --> 00:12:58,160 And some don't have many, some 300 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,735 don't have much to fall back on. 301 00:12:59,735 --> 00:13:02,300 How important was transparency, 302 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:03,740 openness with all of 303 00:13:03,740 --> 00:13:06,860 the various publics you're dealing with. 304 00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:10,460 Two mean with the people themselves are the agencies. 305 00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:11,270 The people. 306 00:13:11,270 --> 00:13:12,470 Yeah. 307 00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:14,670 Transparency was very important 308 00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:16,370 if you're going to be successful. 309 00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:20,480 I mean, contact tracing and isolation and quarantine 310 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:26,270 work if they are actually followed. 311 00:13:26,270 --> 00:13:28,760 But after the first round or so, 312 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,720 people are aware that this means ten days, 313 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,460 14 days of whatever being locked 314 00:13:34,460 --> 00:13:37,490 up than the transparency becomes very, 315 00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:39,410 very opaque and probably not even, 316 00:13:39,410 --> 00:13:42,905 not even there anymore. As it wore on 317 00:13:42,905 --> 00:13:45,500 People just quit and 318 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,855 contact tracing right now for the general public. 319 00:13:47,855 --> 00:13:49,490 I don't know how much we're really doing 320 00:13:49,490 --> 00:13:51,710 because people just, 321 00:13:51,710 --> 00:13:53,600 for the most part, probably 322 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,490 don't want to cooperate anymore. 323 00:13:55,490 --> 00:13:59,449 Isn't there a sense that we're approaching 324 00:13:59,449 --> 00:14:01,670 a general immunity and 325 00:14:01,670 --> 00:14:05,345 the contact tracing isn't worth the effort that anymore. 326 00:14:05,345 --> 00:14:07,310 Well, and there is a, there was a thought this 327 00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:09,440 was another monumental moment back 328 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:14,555 in 2020 when we still work contact tracing. 329 00:14:14,555 --> 00:14:18,680 And then I remember the statement from state 330 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:20,900 was the epidemiologist was 331 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:23,870 we have we're no longer in mitigation now. 332 00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:24,860 We're in suppression. 333 00:14:24,860 --> 00:14:27,260 It was like, okay, the dam broke. 334 00:14:27,260 --> 00:14:28,685 Contact tracing isn't going to 335 00:14:28,685 --> 00:14:30,365 do a thing but a good anymore. 336 00:14:30,365 --> 00:14:32,195 Now we just have to try to 337 00:14:32,195 --> 00:14:35,060 suppress the effects of what's going on. 338 00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:38,690 So I'm not involved in those meetings now, 339 00:14:38,690 --> 00:14:39,920 so I don't want to speak for what 340 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,845 the general health departments are saying. 341 00:14:42,845 --> 00:14:45,290 But I would agree that the sensation or the feeling 342 00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:47,720 is people are going about their business as usual. 343 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:52,310 And will we reach herd immunity with this omicron? 344 00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:53,225 I don't know. 345 00:14:53,225 --> 00:14:56,330 People that managed to 346 00:14:56,330 --> 00:14:58,925 escape COVID the first year-and-a-half? 347 00:14:58,925 --> 00:15:02,010 They seem to all be getting it now. 348 00:15:02,350 --> 00:15:06,830 Yeah, I would agree that contact tracing people, 349 00:15:06,830 --> 00:15:09,020 the value may not be there 350 00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:11,540 anymore and people are not going to cooperate. 351 00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:14,600 If people don't cooperate, it's no value either. 352 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,030 If something like this were to occur 353 00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:19,520 again in 2,3,4,5 years and 354 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,055 the people who are responsible for dealing with it 355 00:15:22,055 --> 00:15:24,500 were to come to you and ask for advice. 356 00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:26,180 What would read the first couple of things 357 00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:27,965 you would say? I would say 358 00:15:27,965 --> 00:15:32,645 as much as people will criticize the CDC. 359 00:15:32,645 --> 00:15:36,470 I still maintain that they are the experts in this. 360 00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:38,105 They have the history. 361 00:15:38,105 --> 00:15:39,695 They know more than we do. 362 00:15:39,695 --> 00:15:41,270 I think above all, it's really 363 00:15:41,270 --> 00:15:45,750 imperative that we all operate with one 364 00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:50,840 To say that we don't. 365 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,070 We worked together with public health 366 00:15:55,070 --> 00:15:59,150 and with the other departments to follow CDC guidelines. 367 00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:01,940 I think that's our that's our golden rule. 368 00:16:01,940 --> 00:16:03,680 That's what we have to fall back on that. 369 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,110 So our best guidance that we have, 370 00:16:06,110 --> 00:16:09,605 and they've done the research. 371 00:16:09,605 --> 00:16:13,730 And it's important that we don't fight amongst ourselves, 372 00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:15,800 that we can't be doing one thing and 373 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,800 public health doing another thing, or vice versa. 374 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,360 So I think to be 375 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,490 a united front as 376 00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:25,565 we battled things like this is really important. 377 00:16:25,565 --> 00:16:27,900 I think, to always. 378 00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:30,440 I always stress that 379 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,280 we're acting in what we think is the 380 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,350 best that we can do at the time. 381 00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:36,970 It's always be humble enough to 382 00:16:36,970 --> 00:16:38,635 know that that might not have been right. 383 00:16:38,635 --> 00:16:39,940 That okay. 384 00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:41,350 That worked a month ago. 385 00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:42,595 It's not working now. 386 00:16:42,595 --> 00:16:44,455 Probably wasn't the best decision. 387 00:16:44,455 --> 00:16:47,050 So I accept that. 388 00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:49,510 Let's move on and let's see what we can do better. 389 00:16:49,510 --> 00:16:51,880 I think there's no place 390 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,729 for bull-headed this in a pandemic. 391 00:16:54,729 --> 00:16:59,110 There has to always be openness to change into 392 00:16:59,110 --> 00:17:03,250 admissions at what we did a month ago. 393 00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:05,275 We don't support doing now. 394 00:17:05,275 --> 00:17:07,940 It's changed. We've learned more. 395 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,810 The one thing when I think back of it might seem minor, 396 00:17:11,810 --> 00:17:12,860 but to me it's not. 397 00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:17,010 But when we first start our isolation quarantine, 398 00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:21,650 it's more of a personal thought, I guess, 399 00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:24,710 but we were understanding 400 00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:28,340 the guidelines to be so rigid that people 401 00:17:28,340 --> 00:17:30,950 were in these rooms and hotel rooms 402 00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:35,765 for 10-14 days not leaving their rooms. 403 00:17:35,765 --> 00:17:38,930 We did learn through the course of this that, 404 00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:41,405 yes, you can go out, 405 00:17:41,405 --> 00:17:43,279 but you don't want take the elevator. 406 00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:45,530 You take this stairwell, you avoid people. 407 00:17:45,530 --> 00:17:47,000 You don't go stop at 408 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,560 the grocery store or the gas station, 409 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:49,805 but you need to get out, 410 00:17:49,805 --> 00:17:52,685 get fresh air, exercise, things like that. 411 00:17:52,685 --> 00:17:57,365 The first many people that were isolated in quarantine, 412 00:17:57,365 --> 00:18:00,120 mentally, it was really difficult for him. 413 00:18:00,250 --> 00:18:04,070 And I I learned a lot with that. 414 00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:07,700 It's like I hope we never have to do that again. 415 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:09,780 That was just too hard on him. 416 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,290 We had an elderly gentleman 417 00:18:12,290 --> 00:18:13,730 come through the testing line. 418 00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:15,170 It following testing, he was 419 00:18:15,170 --> 00:18:16,820 sitting off by himself in the corner of 420 00:18:16,820 --> 00:18:18,020 the performance center all by 421 00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:20,030 himself. That's kinda weird. 422 00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:21,590 So I just went and I sat down with 423 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:23,630 them and I I suppose he was 80, 424 00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:26,930 85 going to ask them how it wasn't what he's doing. 425 00:18:26,930 --> 00:18:29,450 And he said he was waiting for 426 00:18:29,450 --> 00:18:31,310 his rapid results because he wasn't 427 00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:33,200 able to technologically get the results. 428 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,280 So he's waiting to hear what they 429 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,820 were and do the conversation with him. 430 00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:39,950 I found out that I believe it was 431 00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:42,860 his 60th or 65th wedding anniversary. 432 00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:46,520 And his wife was in the hospital with COVID and she's on 433 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,050 the ventilator and the Doctor called 434 00:18:48,050 --> 00:18:50,765 them and told them that she wasn't gonna make it. 435 00:18:50,765 --> 00:18:54,395 And he was so broken because he couldn't see her. 436 00:18:54,395 --> 00:18:57,829 And so he couldn't you could even send her flowers. 437 00:18:57,829 --> 00:19:00,695 And I remember calling Altru 438 00:19:00,695 --> 00:19:05,150 the nursing staff with him and being 439 00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:08,720 able to at least have them allow 440 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,310 him to order flowers put outside 441 00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:12,890 her room just to give them some comfort. 442 00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:14,675 But he sat there and he wept 443 00:19:14,675 --> 00:19:16,070 because you wouldn't see 444 00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:17,690 or get any knew he was going to lose. 445 00:19:17,690 --> 00:19:20,090 And then his results came back positive. 446 00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:21,830 You sitting there waiting. 447 00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:23,870 So it was at that point when 448 00:19:23,870 --> 00:19:26,150 I couldn't remember if I mentioned this to somebody. 449 00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:29,345 They just brought up to me that if I could, 450 00:19:29,345 --> 00:19:32,525 I would actually look at the obituaries. 451 00:19:32,525 --> 00:19:35,855 And especially that man and his wife. 452 00:19:35,855 --> 00:19:37,880 It's like you helped, 453 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,750 you wonder when they leave, if they made it or not. 454 00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:43,265 And you saw people come in 455 00:19:43,265 --> 00:19:46,865 that were so unhealthy and so sick. 456 00:19:46,865 --> 00:19:48,560 They just didn't have 457 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,180 time to keep up watching obituaries, 458 00:19:50,180 --> 00:19:52,310 but you just new symbols, 459 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:53,705 people, we're not going to make it. 460 00:19:53,705 --> 00:19:56,030 That was hard. It was really hurting. 461 00:19:56,030 --> 00:19:59,525 People will be skeptical of public health. 462 00:19:59,525 --> 00:20:01,190 I believe. 463 00:20:01,190 --> 00:20:04,040 I think they will look back on this. 464 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,140 Perhaps criticized some things 465 00:20:06,140 --> 00:20:08,000 that public health chose to do. 466 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,950 I think unfortunately, public health has 467 00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:13,290 lost some of the respect that it had. 468 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,355 The one thing I hang on to 469 00:20:16,355 --> 00:20:19,925 is we have numbers of people who have died from COVID. 470 00:20:19,925 --> 00:20:22,550 When will you want to argue that what is for the payment 471 00:20:22,550 --> 00:20:23,780 from inssurances that people 472 00:20:23,780 --> 00:20:25,535 always talk about or whatever it is. 473 00:20:25,535 --> 00:20:27,620 I don't really care so much about the numbers, 474 00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:29,300 as much as what we know, 475 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:32,270 what we don't know and never will know are the numbers of 476 00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:35,555 people that survived because of these measures. 477 00:20:35,555 --> 00:20:36,950 So we can count the dead, 478 00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:39,710 we can call it the people who had COVID. 479 00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:41,240 We can't count the lives that were 480 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:42,995 saved. We'll never know that. 481 00:20:42,995 --> 00:20:45,755 There's no counter number for that. 482 00:20:45,755 --> 00:20:52,520 And unfortunately, I do think public health is 483 00:20:52,520 --> 00:21:00,635 fighting to gain the respect of the trust. 484 00:21:00,635 --> 00:21:02,630 Maybe the trust that, 485 00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:06,020 you know, the old cliche that it became very political. 486 00:21:06,020 --> 00:21:07,535 I definitely did. 487 00:21:07,535 --> 00:21:09,620 It still is. 488 00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:13,530 I don't care what side anybody's on. 489 00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:18,155 I think that maybe made it more difficult in many ways. 490 00:21:18,155 --> 00:21:20,690 So we'll have a long ways to go to 491 00:21:20,690 --> 00:21:24,480 rebuild the image of public health after this.