1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,930 My name is Melissa Jolson and I am the professor and 2 00:00:03,930 --> 00:00:05,610 director of Norwegian in 3 00:00:05,610 --> 00:00:07,770 the Department of Modern and Classical Languages, 4 00:00:07,770 --> 00:00:10,185 literatures, College of Arts and Sciences. 5 00:00:10,185 --> 00:00:12,270 What's your sense of how 6 00:00:12,270 --> 00:00:15,630 COVID has affected the university? 7 00:00:15,630 --> 00:00:17,640 I've been really impressed with the way that 8 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,530 the university has handled COVID, 9 00:00:19,530 --> 00:00:21,930 both for employees and for students. 10 00:00:21,930 --> 00:00:23,550 During much of the pandemic, 11 00:00:23,550 --> 00:00:26,910 I was in conversations with our statewide union, 12 00:00:26,910 --> 00:00:29,010 North Dakota United for public employees 13 00:00:29,010 --> 00:00:31,170 and higher education professionals 14 00:00:31,170 --> 00:00:32,355 here at the university. 15 00:00:32,355 --> 00:00:36,690 And I was impressed and I always felt like you, 16 00:00:36,690 --> 00:00:39,385 Wendy was leading the pack in many ways. 17 00:00:39,385 --> 00:00:41,480 In ways, in their thoughtfulness, 18 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:43,760 in ways in which we push 19 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,250 the science as it was developing and as we were 20 00:00:46,250 --> 00:00:48,020 learning more ways in which we 21 00:00:48,020 --> 00:00:50,000 were taking care of employees and 22 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,920 students and thinking about 23 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,320 working conditions and keeping everybody safe. 24 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,215 So there was a steep learning curve. 25 00:00:57,215 --> 00:01:00,890 And there were obviously lots of battles are 26 00:01:00,890 --> 00:01:02,240 just small that were happening 27 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,670 on a variety of issues across campus. 28 00:01:04,670 --> 00:01:06,890 But particularly in those conversations 29 00:01:06,890 --> 00:01:08,075 and seeing what of course, 30 00:01:08,075 --> 00:01:10,685 our peer institutions across the nation 31 00:01:10,685 --> 00:01:14,105 and our peer institutions across the state. 32 00:01:14,105 --> 00:01:16,310 We're doing. I think that you, 33 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:20,465 Andy was responding remarkably well in lots of ways. 34 00:01:20,465 --> 00:01:25,235 How about with regard to how faculty generally 35 00:01:25,235 --> 00:01:30,005 responded to the pandemic? 36 00:01:30,005 --> 00:01:31,850 In my program in particular, 37 00:01:31,850 --> 00:01:34,565 perhaps not through the department as a whole, 38 00:01:34,565 --> 00:01:36,500 but in my program in particular, 39 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:39,035 we had been serving online and distance students 40 00:01:39,035 --> 00:01:41,135 for several years before the pandemic hit. 41 00:01:41,135 --> 00:01:43,190 The transition to online learning for us and 42 00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:46,490 the Norwegian program was smooth and very easy. 43 00:01:46,490 --> 00:01:49,265 We've been serving students from across 44 00:01:49,265 --> 00:01:52,610 the continent and another continence as well, actually, 45 00:01:52,610 --> 00:01:54,830 and folks looking to learn Norwegian, 46 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:58,130 we've already had those kinds of classrooms, 47 00:01:58,130 --> 00:01:59,930 the Zoom classrooms established 48 00:01:59,930 --> 00:02:01,460 and those relationships built. 49 00:02:01,460 --> 00:02:05,135 So it was a seamless transition for us in lots of ways. 50 00:02:05,135 --> 00:02:07,430 Now, that meant, 51 00:02:07,430 --> 00:02:10,130 that didn't necessarily carry over into how 52 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:14,630 the students responded in getting that same chemistry and 53 00:02:14,630 --> 00:02:17,360 that same level of engagement and excitement in 54 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,195 the classroom had a lot of varying factors. 55 00:02:20,195 --> 00:02:21,650 Of course, students spring, 56 00:02:21,650 --> 00:02:24,650 like we all do our whole selves to the classroom. 57 00:02:24,650 --> 00:02:26,540 And so it's not just the learning 58 00:02:26,540 --> 00:02:27,740 that we're doing there that moment, 59 00:02:27,740 --> 00:02:29,570 but it's all of the worries and 60 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:31,610 the cares and concerns and celebrations we 61 00:02:31,610 --> 00:02:34,370 have happening in life that are coming with us as 62 00:02:34,370 --> 00:02:37,745 we go into any class period at any given day. 63 00:02:37,745 --> 00:02:40,820 So perhaps it got harder to shut out 64 00:02:40,820 --> 00:02:42,380 the noise or when you were 65 00:02:42,380 --> 00:02:45,080 a student and living back home in the basement, 66 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,585 dad came through with the laundry or 67 00:02:47,585 --> 00:02:49,850 mom came to wonder where you put the keys or 68 00:02:49,850 --> 00:02:51,080 something like this and any of 69 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,760 those intrusions that happened when 70 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,680 your bedroom or your old bedroom 71 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,855 maybe suddenly became your classroom. 72 00:02:56,855 --> 00:02:58,580 We're sort of the new every 73 00:02:58,580 --> 00:03:00,230 day that we all learned to deal with. 74 00:03:00,230 --> 00:03:02,899 And just knowing that students 75 00:03:02,899 --> 00:03:05,000 who already here at the University of North Dakota 76 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,035 were busy workers, 77 00:03:06,035 --> 00:03:08,645 we have a high population of student workers. 78 00:03:08,645 --> 00:03:13,235 Watching students manage their outside employment, 79 00:03:13,235 --> 00:03:15,290 their current academic load, 80 00:03:15,290 --> 00:03:17,150 their own health and 81 00:03:17,150 --> 00:03:19,505 the health and worries of their family and friends, 82 00:03:19,505 --> 00:03:21,080 and balancing all that together 83 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,050 was nothing short of impressive. 84 00:03:24,050 --> 00:03:27,890 I think. I did my best 85 00:03:27,890 --> 00:03:30,020 to offer and ask for 86 00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:32,645 grace in all of the ways in which we are all learning. 87 00:03:32,645 --> 00:03:35,450 To tackle and navigate the everyday. 88 00:03:35,450 --> 00:03:37,580 To continue learning and to continue being 89 00:03:37,580 --> 00:03:39,575 a supportive learning community for each other. 90 00:03:39,575 --> 00:03:41,165 During all of this, 91 00:03:41,165 --> 00:03:43,130 there's been a lot of talk about 92 00:03:43,130 --> 00:03:46,055 the impact on students mental health 93 00:03:46,055 --> 00:03:50,420 of shifting around and 94 00:03:50,420 --> 00:03:52,370 responding in one way and then 95 00:03:52,370 --> 00:03:54,680 coming back and responding in another way. 96 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,255 What was your sense of that? 97 00:03:56,255 --> 00:03:57,635 What did you see in students? 98 00:03:57,635 --> 00:03:59,225 Were they handling it okay. 99 00:03:59,225 --> 00:04:05,330 Generally, I think in general. 100 00:04:05,330 --> 00:04:08,150 Let's see, how should I answer this too. 101 00:04:08,150 --> 00:04:12,860 things, I think that it's become both easier 102 00:04:12,860 --> 00:04:14,810 to talk about mental health issues and 103 00:04:14,810 --> 00:04:17,780 more normalized in some ways, 104 00:04:17,780 --> 00:04:20,810 which has made it lowered 105 00:04:20,810 --> 00:04:23,930 the threshold to be able to talk about our mental health, 106 00:04:23,930 --> 00:04:26,165 everybody's mental health and what that looks like. 107 00:04:26,165 --> 00:04:28,130 And so I think that has played into 108 00:04:28,130 --> 00:04:30,110 the higher number of students that I've seen 109 00:04:30,110 --> 00:04:32,360 reaching out to me to be honest and 110 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,150 upfront about the fact that I've I'm sorry, 111 00:04:35,150 --> 00:04:36,455 I just checked out right now 112 00:04:36,455 --> 00:04:38,480 or I'm feeling like I need to check out right 113 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,160 now because I'm just not handling this very 114 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,260 well in a variety of ways. 115 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:43,865 So I think overall I saw 116 00:04:43,865 --> 00:04:46,880 a larger number of students having those conversations 117 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,560 with me and admitting 118 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,435 these situations to me and working through them. 119 00:04:53,435 --> 00:04:56,210 But I think that's like I said, 120 00:04:56,210 --> 00:04:58,235 both the pressures of 121 00:04:58,235 --> 00:05:00,290 everyday that we're all dealing with and 122 00:05:00,290 --> 00:05:05,420 the increased use of 123 00:05:05,420 --> 00:05:10,745 normalcy and the increased standardization almost. 124 00:05:10,745 --> 00:05:13,280 The recognition that it's 125 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:14,945 okay and we can talk about this, 126 00:05:14,945 --> 00:05:16,235 and it's better to talk about it 127 00:05:16,235 --> 00:05:18,695 than to just struggle with this alone. 128 00:05:18,695 --> 00:05:21,230 It's certainly offered folks opportunity 129 00:05:21,230 --> 00:05:23,240 to think about things that were most important to them. 130 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,810 And perhaps it was a part of that or perhaps it was. 131 00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:33,829 I can say that for me. It was a recognition 132 00:05:33,829 --> 00:05:38,570 of a recognition that I can own. 133 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:40,160 There are only so many hours in the day 134 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,900 and I only had so much bandwidth. 135 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:43,700 So rather than projected onto other people, 136 00:05:43,700 --> 00:05:45,125 let me just say that for me, 137 00:05:45,125 --> 00:05:49,010 it required an amount of checking myself to say, 138 00:05:49,010 --> 00:05:51,395 I have this many hours in the day. 139 00:05:51,395 --> 00:05:53,015 I have this much energy. 140 00:05:53,015 --> 00:05:54,995 I have these things to accomplish 141 00:05:54,995 --> 00:05:56,900 and something's gotta go, something's got to give. 142 00:05:56,900 --> 00:06:00,005 And part of that is that you took on a new role? 143 00:06:00,005 --> 00:06:03,650 I did. I became a parent through adoption 144 00:06:03,650 --> 00:06:09,155 in August of 2020 on about with the short notice. 145 00:06:09,155 --> 00:06:10,520 And it was the best thing that 146 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,380 happened during the pandemic. 147 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:14,690 Talk about the child. 148 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:16,835 She is delightful. 149 00:06:16,835 --> 00:06:19,910 She is named Aurora for 150 00:06:19,910 --> 00:06:21,560 the Northern Lights and 151 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,555 for the bright light that she is in my life. 152 00:06:23,555 --> 00:06:27,605 And she is an absolute joy and wonder. 153 00:06:27,605 --> 00:06:30,500 How old is she? 17 months. 154 00:06:30,500 --> 00:06:32,795 So part of that 155 00:06:32,795 --> 00:06:38,525 in because I was thrown pretty unexpectedly. 156 00:06:38,525 --> 00:06:41,705 Know that's not true. I was I 157 00:06:41,705 --> 00:06:43,400 jumped at an opportunity that 158 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,395 I've been waiting a long time to have. 159 00:06:45,395 --> 00:06:52,025 And those are happy tears. 160 00:06:52,025 --> 00:06:53,975 Totally happy tears, absolutely. 161 00:06:53,975 --> 00:06:56,494 So it felt like I couldn't ask. 162 00:06:56,494 --> 00:06:58,520 I was a new territory myself in 163 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,700 a work environment and asking students to 164 00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:04,280 have that same to 165 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:06,395 extend that same grace to me that I was asking 166 00:07:06,395 --> 00:07:11,540 them felt like felt like the right thing to do. 167 00:07:11,540 --> 00:07:12,200 Yeah. 168 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,230 Looking back over the past two years or 169 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:18,140 are there things that you think could have been 170 00:07:18,140 --> 00:07:21,599 done better or earlier 171 00:07:21,820 --> 00:07:26,210 or differently in responding to COVID? 172 00:07:26,210 --> 00:07:29,195 As it, as it affected the university. 173 00:07:29,195 --> 00:07:30,890 I can speak to the level of 174 00:07:30,890 --> 00:07:32,420 the university and say at large, 175 00:07:32,420 --> 00:07:33,500 I think the university has done 176 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:35,180 a very good job of responding to things 177 00:07:35,180 --> 00:07:38,630 locally at my own department and college level. 178 00:07:38,630 --> 00:07:40,070 I've had a lot 179 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:43,310 of I've been impressed with the leadership there as well 180 00:07:43,310 --> 00:07:46,820 who have showing understanding 181 00:07:46,820 --> 00:07:49,280 to focus situation and try to be as 182 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,470 flexible as possible to enable 183 00:07:51,470 --> 00:07:53,600 public safety and our employees and 184 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,540 our students safety to take the primary seat. 185 00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:59,015 And also deliver 186 00:07:59,015 --> 00:08:01,490 a high-quality education at the same time. 187 00:08:01,490 --> 00:08:03,890 And that's not always an easy edge to balance. 188 00:08:03,890 --> 00:08:05,480 And I think the institution has done 189 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,325 a remarkable job of making that happen. 190 00:08:07,325 --> 00:08:08,450 Of course, there are always things 191 00:08:08,450 --> 00:08:09,755 that we could have done better. 192 00:08:09,755 --> 00:08:12,425 But I think that from the larger view, 193 00:08:12,425 --> 00:08:15,635 that's my overarching takeaway. 194 00:08:15,635 --> 00:08:19,505 It could be that time has colored that now and the two, 195 00:08:19,505 --> 00:08:20,960 I don't know if I have my rosy 196 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,610 colored post-pandemic glasses on. 197 00:08:22,610 --> 00:08:23,990 I don't think that's true. 198 00:08:23,990 --> 00:08:26,855 But my general sense 199 00:08:26,855 --> 00:08:31,415 after now are moving into our third startup. 200 00:08:31,415 --> 00:08:34,040 So that again, my general sense moving 201 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:35,060 into year three of 202 00:08:35,060 --> 00:08:36,995 the pandemic here in just a couple of months, 203 00:08:36,995 --> 00:08:41,405 is that we've dealt remarkably well with things. 204 00:08:41,405 --> 00:08:43,985 That's why I think the transition felt 205 00:08:43,985 --> 00:08:47,900 less disruptive in those ways. 206 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:52,550 I can also say that I was planning for a I 207 00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:56,780 was I am on again again the planning committee 208 00:08:56,780 --> 00:08:59,105 for a disciplinary conference that was 209 00:08:59,105 --> 00:09:01,970 scheduled to be held in April of 2020 that we 210 00:09:01,970 --> 00:09:04,820 called and postponed a week 211 00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:08,240 before the conference as the COVID was. 212 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,040 We're just figuring out what was going on with 213 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,680 COVID and made that hard decision and planned 214 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:14,630 a conference than to be rescheduled for 215 00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:17,660 2022 or two years in the future, right? 216 00:09:17,660 --> 00:09:18,890 Clearly, we'll be done with this, 217 00:09:18,890 --> 00:09:20,390 whatever it is in two years. 218 00:09:20,390 --> 00:09:22,630 And here we are stuck planning 219 00:09:22,630 --> 00:09:26,230 not stuck in the midst of planning the conference 220 00:09:26,230 --> 00:09:28,900 for April of 2022 with folks 221 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:30,550 still yet not knowing whether or 222 00:09:30,550 --> 00:09:32,230 not they're going to be able to travel, 223 00:09:32,230 --> 00:09:34,435 to be able to get to this conference. 224 00:09:34,435 --> 00:09:36,265 And what that looks like. 225 00:09:36,265 --> 00:09:39,760 We're looking at the Transatlantic post, 226 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,760 post-colonial entanglements in the Caribbean 227 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,620 with Scandinavian colonial powers. 228 00:09:44,620 --> 00:09:46,915 And so we're talking about, 229 00:09:46,915 --> 00:09:49,585 we're going to Puerto Rico and we're looking at, 230 00:09:49,585 --> 00:09:52,000 of course, as a US territory that we can travel there. 231 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,980 But it's complicated sometimes 232 00:09:53,980 --> 00:09:55,840 to get to the islands and be able to 233 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,750 get our large international population 234 00:09:58,750 --> 00:09:59,920 of scholars that generally 235 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:01,615 attend this conference with us. 236 00:10:01,615 --> 00:10:04,700 We run based in the United States, 237 00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:06,605 but we are an international organization. 238 00:10:06,605 --> 00:10:09,530 So welcoming and enabling all 239 00:10:09,530 --> 00:10:12,290 of our international members to be able to join us in 240 00:10:12,290 --> 00:10:19,205 person in Puerto Rico is not not an easy endeavor, right? 241 00:10:19,205 --> 00:10:22,100 I can talk just briefly about study abroad if I could. 242 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:22,580 Yeah. 243 00:10:22,580 --> 00:10:25,040 This was another aspect of it. 244 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,650 So I had in fact, Chuck, 245 00:10:27,650 --> 00:10:30,740 you and I had a study abroad trip together in state two, 246 00:10:30,740 --> 00:10:34,280 the Icelandic American corner of North Dakota, 247 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:40,265 just weeks before we went remote in March of 2020. 248 00:10:40,265 --> 00:10:43,085 And I had been scheduled also to take students 249 00:10:43,085 --> 00:10:46,025 on a trip lovingly dub Scandinavia. 250 00:10:46,025 --> 00:10:47,510 But study abroad office, 251 00:10:47,510 --> 00:10:51,260 which we had as a faculty led study abroad to capitals, 252 00:10:51,260 --> 00:10:53,270 cities in Iceland, Norway, 253 00:10:53,270 --> 00:10:55,100 Denmark, and then the south of Sweden. 254 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:56,585 We didn't make it all the way to Stockholm. 255 00:10:56,585 --> 00:10:59,600 But this has been both as a faculty lead, 256 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,820 short-term study abroad experience like that, 257 00:11:01,820 --> 00:11:04,310 and independent study abroad 258 00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:08,075 projects have been severely impacted. 259 00:11:08,075 --> 00:11:10,895 Of course, by the pandemic. 260 00:11:10,895 --> 00:11:13,460 You can't hold an international summer school at 261 00:11:13,460 --> 00:11:15,950 the University of Oslo where you normally invite 262 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:19,040 500 students from 100 countries to come 263 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,495 and spend six weeks together 264 00:11:20,495 --> 00:11:22,430 when we're in the middle of a global pandemic. 265 00:11:22,430 --> 00:11:24,770 And so thinking about students, 266 00:11:24,770 --> 00:11:27,905 educational opportunities and travel and 267 00:11:27,905 --> 00:11:30,320 how travel impacts and 268 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,435 study abroad impact student learning 269 00:11:32,435 --> 00:11:34,310 and our students here at UMD. 270 00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:36,320 That's been a dramatic change in 271 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,370 the opportunities that we've been 272 00:11:37,370 --> 00:11:38,840 able to offer our students. 273 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,180 That's always one of the great advantages to me 274 00:11:41,180 --> 00:11:43,610 and one of the exciting parts of our discipline and 275 00:11:43,610 --> 00:11:46,400 encouraging that international travel and 276 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,910 those lived experiences from study abroad and 277 00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:51,920 being a part of being a minority in 278 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,960 a majority culture where you aren't speaking 279 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,190 the language and are 280 00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:56,690 learning your language learner and you 281 00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:58,220 understand what it's like to be in 282 00:11:58,220 --> 00:12:00,680 that language learning position every day. 283 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,570 And all of those wonderful 284 00:12:02,570 --> 00:12:04,580 transformative experiences we haven't been able 285 00:12:04,580 --> 00:12:07,160 to share with our students 286 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,875 in the same way that we did pre-pandemic. 287 00:12:09,875 --> 00:12:11,945 So those are also some impacts 288 00:12:11,945 --> 00:12:14,345 on my fields, particularly that have, 289 00:12:14,345 --> 00:12:16,730 that have been not only from our colleagues side 290 00:12:16,730 --> 00:12:19,160 is traveling to conferences and doing research together, 291 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,750 but also that student experience at 292 00:12:20,750 --> 00:12:23,210 the study abroad short or long term, 293 00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:24,620 that has been impacted too. 294 00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:26,990 So I'm looking forward to the day when we can 295 00:12:26,990 --> 00:12:30,580 travel more freely again and immerse ourselves in, 296 00:12:30,580 --> 00:12:33,440 in other cultures and live 297 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:34,850 alongside new folks and 298 00:12:34,850 --> 00:12:37,190 neighbors and to have those opportunities. 299 00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:39,950 I'm also really impressed by the ways in which we created 300 00:12:39,950 --> 00:12:42,830 community during COVID and ways that I hadn't expected. 301 00:12:42,830 --> 00:12:45,650 That was a big advocate of in-person events, 302 00:12:45,650 --> 00:12:47,690 lecture series, author visits, 303 00:12:47,690 --> 00:12:48,740 kinds of things that we did at 304 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:51,200 the UMD writer's conference or events that 305 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,300 humanities North Dakota were able to bring together 306 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:55,805 for book discussions and group reads and things. 307 00:12:55,805 --> 00:12:58,490 And the way in which pivot to of course, 308 00:12:58,490 --> 00:13:00,950 became the word of the day for so many people. 309 00:13:00,950 --> 00:13:02,750 But the way in which organizations 310 00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:05,750 like the windy writer's conference and humanities 311 00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:06,830 North Dakota were able 312 00:13:06,830 --> 00:13:09,350 to quickly transition to be able to bring 313 00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:11,120 those writer conversations into 314 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,650 my living room was really 315 00:13:12,650 --> 00:13:14,825 a lifeline for me during the pandemic. 316 00:13:14,825 --> 00:13:18,230 And it felt especially as apparent with an infant, 317 00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:21,560 new parents with an infant who wasn't able 318 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:24,815 to get out and do the kinds of things that I had. 319 00:13:24,815 --> 00:13:26,210 Who's doing different things 320 00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:27,530 than I had been doing previously, 321 00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:29,360 but still hungering for those kinds of 322 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,310 literary conversations to be able 323 00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:32,960 to be on mute and able to 324 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,180 listen to now either talk or I'll be in a book group, 325 00:13:35,180 --> 00:13:38,030 in a book discussion and have 326 00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:41,120 those opportunities from my living room was one of 327 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,015 the things that kept kept 328 00:13:44,015 --> 00:13:48,420 my creative spirits burning during the pandemic.